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	<title>Comments on: Partha Dasgupta vs. Jared Diamond</title>
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	<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/</link>
	<description>coping with ecological surprise in a human dominated world</description>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-222976</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 23:43:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Jonathan has a fascinating case and criticism of Dasgupta</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jonathan has a fascinating case and criticism of Dasgupta</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan Aldred</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-77</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan Aldred</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-77</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The following is the text of the letter I sent to LRB commenting on Dasgupta on Diamond.  An edited version of the letter was published.</p>
<p>Partha Dasgupta writes as an economist. So do I. Presumably I am supposed to be grateful for Dasgupta assuring LRB readers that the way many economists think about environmental problems “is the correct way to evaluate public policy … a policy should be accepted if and only if it is expected to lead to an increase in wealth per capita”. But I am exasperated by the imperious tone of such pronouncements, which will only serve to isolate economics further from environmental debate in the humanities and social sciences. Dasgupta continues “there is no evidence [Jared Diamond] even realises he doesn’t have the equipment to hand with which to study our interactions with nature” and worries that Diamond’s readers will likewise “not even notice that they haven’t got the tools”. Of course the ‘tools’, ‘equipment’ and ‘toolkit’ to which Dasgupta refers concern the contraption he terms ‘modern economics’. Dasgupta’s use of ‘modern’ as a badge of honour would make Blair proud. He mentions ‘modern theories of economic development’ and ‘modern decentralised economies’; in both cases the adjective is used to ignore and belittle alternatives without bothering to discuss them. </p>
<p>Debate is not encouraged by hints that only those with the right tools are qualified to speak. This is black box economics: out of my technical hat I bring the ‘correct’ policy, but sorry, no explanations or reasons since it’s too technical for you to understand. This technical guff needs a good lesson in market discipline. The vast majority of politicians, policy-makers and opinion-formers have no understanding or interest in intricate technical stories (they’re called ‘models’). More importantly, there’s little evidence that even for those who do understand, the technical stories have any influence on their thinking. Market economists are supposed to respond to customer demand, not rebuke them for failing to have the right toolkit. </p>
<p>The customers crave understanding; economists might begin with some honesty about the limitations of economic analysis. Dasgupta is right to emphasise the uncertainties which plague attempts to quantify natural capital, but wrong to imply that the solution is less ‘biased’ quantification. Since Keynes, most applied economists have accepted that genuinely uncertain outcomes cannot be quantified. Only the most austere Bayesians believe everything has a probability. Setting problems of uncertainty aside, quantification remains spurious. We would think it absurd to invoke cost-benefit analysis to justify say, homeland security policy. Environmental security should not have to pass such a test either. Bush and Blair know that cost-benefit analysis cannot legitimise their military expansion plans; they must appeal to morality. In this respect at least, environmentalism can learn from them.</p>
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		<title>By: Resilience Science &#187; Collapse Exposition</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-76</link>
		<dc:creator>Resilience Science &#187; Collapse Exposition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:50:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-76</guid>
		<description>[...] See also the post Partha Dasgupta vs. Jared Diamond [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See also the post Partha Dasgupta vs. Jared Diamond [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Balter</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-75</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Balter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jul 2005 16:34:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-75</guid>
		<description>I thought you might be interested in seeing my review of the PBS program in July 8 Science. You can access a text version on my Web site at:
 
http://www.michaelbalter.com/NeolithicNews/07_25_2005&#124;Review_of_Guns_Germs_and_Steel.php
 
 
all best, Michael Balter, Science
 
 
www.michaelbalter.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought you might be interested in seeing my review of the PBS program in July 8 Science. You can access a text version on my Web site at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.michaelbalter.com/NeolithicNews/07_25_2005" rel="nofollow">http://www.michaelbalter.com/NeolithicNews/07_25_2005</a>|Review_of_Guns_Germs_and_Steel.php</p>
<p>all best, Michael Balter, Science</p>
<p><a href="http://www.michaelbalter.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.michaelbalter.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Resilience Science &#187; Well-Being vs. Wealth (1) - Quality of Life</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-74</link>
		<dc:creator>Resilience Science &#187; Well-Being vs. Wealth (1) - Quality of Life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jul 2005 07:31:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-74</guid>
		<description>[...] nder: Ideas, Ecological Economics &#8212; Garry Peterson @ 2:30 am  	 	 			Following up on Partha Dasgupta&#8217;s book review here [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] nder: Ideas, Ecological Economics &#8212; Garry Peterson @ 2:30 am  	 	 			Following up on Partha Dasgupta&#8217;s book review here [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Irfan ul Haque</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-71</link>
		<dc:creator>Irfan ul Haque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2005 02:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-71</guid>
		<description>Partha Dasgupta&#039;s faith in cost-benefit analysis is touching, but, in the context of the environmental issues/trade-offs, not particularly helpful.  He himself more or less acknowledges that measuring &quot;wealth&quot; (especially when it includes natural capital and institutions) is awfully hard, and the actual estimates are usually questionable.  The trouble with natural capital and institutions, in particular, is that their &quot;decumulation&quot; is seen only in the actual results: rise of deserts or emergence of failed states -- which leads to circular argumentation.  Jared Diamond may have indulged too much in &quot;doom and gloom&quot;, but economics -- the dismal science -- does not provide much comfort either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Partha Dasgupta&#8217;s faith in cost-benefit analysis is touching, but, in the context of the environmental issues/trade-offs, not particularly helpful.  He himself more or less acknowledges that measuring &#8220;wealth&#8221; (especially when it includes natural capital and institutions) is awfully hard, and the actual estimates are usually questionable.  The trouble with natural capital and institutions, in particular, is that their &#8220;decumulation&#8221; is seen only in the actual results: rise of deserts or emergence of failed states &#8212; which leads to circular argumentation.  Jared Diamond may have indulged too much in &#8220;doom and gloom&#8221;, but economics &#8212; the dismal science &#8212; does not provide much comfort either.</p>
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		<title>By: Biopolitical</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-73</link>
		<dc:creator>Biopolitical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2005 23:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-73</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Economics, biology and society&lt;/strong&gt;

&quot;Without a sympathetic understanding of economic mechanisms, it isn&#039;t possible to offer advice on the interactions between nature and the human species.&quot; Partha Dasgupta has written this in a review of Jared Diamond&#039;s Collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Economics, biology and society</strong></p>
<p>&#8220;Without a sympathetic understanding of economic mechanisms, it isn&#8217;t possible to offer advice on the interactions between nature and the human species.&#8221; Partha Dasgupta has written this in a review of Jared Diamond&#8217;s Collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: Crumb Trail</title>
		<link>http://rs.resalliance.org/2005/06/23/partha-dasgupta-vs-jared-diamond/comment-page-1/#comment-72</link>
		<dc:creator>Crumb Trail</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jun 2005 11:42:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.resalliance.org/?p=55#comment-72</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Critical Balance&lt;/strong&gt;

 I&#039;ve ridiculed Jared Diamond&#039;s recent book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive several times (see Unanimous Fallacies and Lemony New Doom for examples) and saw no use to do it again when Partha Dasgupta&#039;s review was published...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Critical Balance</strong></p>
<p> I&#8217;ve ridiculed Jared Diamond&#8217;s recent book Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Survive several times (see Unanimous Fallacies and Lemony New Doom for examples) and saw no use to do it again when Partha Dasgupta&#8217;s review was published&#8230;</p>
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